Amaroth

And thats EXACTLY why moving to Legion is absolutely worthless for so many people focused on especially map design as long as Noggit is the only usable map editor around and as long as it supports WotLK with its limitations/possibilities only.

If you don't read my (whole) post, don't react to it. Simple. There are many changes which came in Cata+ expansions - changes I have absolutely no use for when it comes to kind of stuff I work on. There are maybe like 3 or 4 things out of hundreds I'd really use, the rest is utterly useless (garrisons, new BGs, new arenas, pet battles, new talent systems, new PvP system, new blizzlike maps, you name it - I have absolutly no use for any of these and many other new thigs as I don't work on projects which make use of them whatsoever). So yes, I would gain nearly nothing I don't already have on WotLK, I'd just have to face many difficulties, which are, in my case, just not worth it. And I won't repeat myself anymore. This is my personal opinion, my personal prefference, my personal feeling and most importantly, my personal choice. Are you in my place, are you doing exactly the same stuff as I do, for exactly the same reasons and for exactly the same people I do? No? So don't force me to follow your choices, as I have mine, and don't look down at me, as working on Legion alone doesn't make you by default any better (or any worse) than me or any other WotLK guy. It says nothing, means nothing, only that you made a different choice, because for you is Legion worth the effort. Fine. Its not worth it for me - and the same applies to 99% of WotLK community. Get fucking over it, and stop behaving, all of you, like WotLK guys were worse than you just for the fact that they have decided to stay on WotLK.

There are several reasons why I can't benefit from moving to any newer expansion from WotLK. There are actually some reasons why I would more loose than gain. And all of them were pretty much covered by Skarn already, so I won't just repeat them. I'd just add one more - the only finished and working map editor around is a Noggit. 3.3.5a tool - so maps need to be modded with WotLK client source files, in WotLK format, with WotLK limitations, and then converted. Terrible procedure killing every possible gain I'd get from moving to Legion or WoD. The rest was said by Skarn. There is literally nothing on newer expansions I'd move to them for, apart from better game engine itself. It would just make my life harder, a lot. So why bother. Once again. Do you want to move there? Well, feel fucking free to. I don't have any reason to do that, as I'm most likely completely leaving this place when I finish my university and as I'm doing all this around just as a freakin' hobby. You know, that the stuff you do for fun, not for stress. I'm basically a programmer by trade. I don't want to turn this hobby into stuff I do in my job.

I work on WotLK, because I do what I like, when I like and how I like it. I work on WotLK because its not my fucking JOB, its my fucking HOBBY. I do it because it is easy, yet it is capable of achieving beautiful scenery. I make WotLK maps because its FUN for me. If thats a reason, why I should be called a "335a fag", why I should be looked down at or whatever else, seriously, PISS OFF arrogant idiots. You like to mod the newest expansions? OK, thats your choice. But let me give you a little advice. Its easier to masturbate to porn, than to masturbate to "not being and 335a fag untermensch". Elitstic pieces of garbage, thats what you are sirs. While Schlumpf was very far from being nice, the way you usually behave around is utterly terrible. You got what you begged for multiple times, so don't whine now after being just once mistreated - by one person.

Cursors might be horizontal, but that doesn't really mean that you have bigger variety of options in 3D software. You don't. You can't move verticles in different than height coord and you can't use more than 4 textures per chunk, you also can't paint textures in more accurate way than Noggit can. To sum it up, 3D software would offer you many possibilitties WoW engine would not, so in case you want to make any edits fro your game client, it would be utterly useless to get stuff from WoW into Maya. If you want to (only) use this stuff for some animation/rendering/whatever purpouses and game edits won't be your final product, well, thats ofc wholly different story. Still, the only 3D software to which was ADT exported I know about was Blender. I can't recall who did that (ask Skarn, he should know) and I don't know how much successfull was that attempt or if there were any limitations, issues with doing this and so on. Anyway, whatever can be imported into Blender can be imported into another 3D software as well, so, some good news for you. Btw, don't worry, I absolutely hate Blender as well.

First of all, you won't find a good support when it comes to different 3D software than Blender. Nearly everyone around uses Blender and even if you don't want to use it for various reasons, you'll have to have it on your PC and use it for some conversion or preconversion processes anyway. Having said that, there were some experiments around exporting WoW ADT file into Blender, but I don't know how far dd they get and I haven't seen any final public release (I may have just missed it though). Anyway, there's no very big reasons for doing so. Do you want to get it into 3D to make better use of textures? No point in doing so, WoW's engine won't give you more possibilities in 3D software thn Noggit gives you. Absolutely the same applies to terrain model geometry and so on. When it comes to caves, you need to understand how server side map work. To make it very short, you need to have all ground ("walkable") surfaces made either of WMO model geometry, or of terrain model geometry. So, you need to make at least floors (and walls as well) out of terrain in Noggit and make ceiling and final decorations out of M2s (and that would be done in Noggit and there would be absolutely no point of any export to Maya, because you'd have to keep WoW's engine restrictions anyway), or you need to create a WMO model for your cave and then just spawn it into map in the same way you'd spawn any different WMO. There is a Blender WMO export/import script. You can use it to create your cave model in Maya, then open it in Blender and export it into WMO. Or you can work in Blender from the beginning, making saving process less tedious.

Is this some new type of #swag writing in colors?

Once you get your item.dbc work done, its fairly simple and I've even written a program for it already: However, this assumes you've got item.dbc. If you want to get even that DBC generated... well, thats a hard thing to do. I've never created such a script, mainly because: 1. Blizzard's displayIDs (and those made by modders as well :P) tend to be a horrible mess, yet they work correctly, which renders such script useless against pretty much anything what isn't done in a clean way. 2. Distinguishing between some items (like shirts vs chests) is hard or impossible. 3. To specify item, you need to set not just its InventoryType, but also class and subclass correctly. How do you want to teach your script how to distinguish one handed axe from one handed sword? You can't do that. The same applies to shield vs weapon. The same applies to armor subclasses (none vs cloth vs leather vs mail vs plate). You can make a way around this, make your script "smart" so it makes decisions based on for example texture/model names, but it will never be really reliable, and it would take quite a lot of work. In the end, you'd have to go through generated data and fix by hand whatever won't be OK. So I'd say that making item.dbc by hand and using my app afterwards is actually a better way of doing this.

I've created a single, small building, which I have extended later. So, in the end, there are actually 4 versions of that building, every single one is a little bit different. Keep on mind that that high stone lower part of the building and these stairs leading towards its entrance are there to make spawning of these buildings on angled terrain more simple and less restrictive - for example WoD buildings must stand on nearly perfect plane, which I find very limiting and unlikable. However, noone forces you to actually spawn those buildings with entrances so high above the terrain. Those buildings don't have cellars, mainly because I simply haven't kept in mid while I was doing them that a cellar might be a near and requested feature. Cellars will appear in later model sets. There are 4 buildings in the first release.: Just a simple building, with one room. 2nd level was added, with stairs leading to it. The same as #2, but this one has also one extra side room, which can be used for storing stuff or whatever. This one lacks #3's extra side room, but it gets neat tower (with interior properly modelled, like I said - everything will be passable) and a balcony, so some luxury over there! All buildings need a revamp by using newer version of WMO addon and fix of their windows. I'll get it done... eventually. You can download an up to date version of my WMO pack here.:

I've created a single, small building, which I have extended later. So, in the end, there are actually 4 versions of that building, every single one is a little bit different. Keep on mind that that high stone lower part of the building and these stairs leading towards its entrance are there to make spawning of these buildings on angled terrain more simple and less restrictive - for example WoD buildings must stand on nearly perfect plane, which I find very limiting and unlikable. However, noone forces you to actually spawn those buildings with entrances so high above the terrain. Those buildings don't have cellars, mainly because I simply haven't kept in mid while I was doing them that a cellar might be a near and requested feature. Cellars will appear in later model sets. There are 4 buildings in the first release.: Just a simple building, with one room. 2nd level was added, with stairs leading to it. The same as #2, but this one has also one extra side room, which can be used for storing stuff or whatever. This one lacks #3's extra side room, but it gets neat tower (with interior properly modelled, like I said - everything will be passable) and a balcony, so some luxury over there! All buildings need a revamp by using newer version of WMO addon and fix of their windows. I'll get it done... eventually. You can download an up to date version of my WMO pack here.:

There's huge amount of things which can go wrong here. First of all I'd make really sure that errors aren't actually caused by some M2 in doodad set of that WMO which is giving you crashes. Its hard to try to fix thing, which isn't actually broken on its own :D.

I've moved to C# from Java and have to agree, they are very similiar.

This proves nothing. When someone behaves like an idiot, I add him on Skype and tell him to stop it and he continiues to behave like an idiot, I say similiar thing. "Thanks for proving that you really are an idiot and that others are not just crying, by, have a nice trip through ban". Like I said, we can't really determine who lies and who not. About Alastor, you guys know what is he like, so you can have your own opinions and ideas even without me retelling anything from my point of view :P.

The only thing I have problem with is flame of people about personal differences and things we know nothing about, things, which are between them and are not really related to modding scene. Well, it is, in a fashion, but you get my point anyway. It is ONLY between you guys and it isn't really related to modding community as whole. While it was interresting to find out how bad situation is in large communities (it kinda made me start liking mine small one again), if you want to start flaming between each other here, use your PM, gentlemen. Now, feel free to want to kill me for my opinion :D.

Does anyone see a reason why this topic should be here (especially still opened) anyway?

If you speak about Altharia, I gave it to one guy who asked for it when project where that map was used ended. If someone has stolen it from him... well, its not even stealing from me anymore. That map has also changed a lot since then. It was also the very first map I've made, which makes it pretty ugly in comparision to my newer stuff :D. Well, now it has Legion models and stuff like that on it as far as I know, but terrain haven't changed much.

Well, now thats what I call a fun fact :D:D. Another fun fact, my patches were never stolen as far as I know. And I work on RP servers (but only on local ones). So... wth are you people doing everywhere else Oo.

While I agree that stealing work of others and claiming it as your own is despicable at the best, you might consider calming your tits mate. Just a little bit. Reznik is from Czech (I am as well), my fiancee is from Slovakai. If you are here to insult our countries and to wish someone death, you should watch your keyboard more closely and think twice about things you type. Because they make you look like you are no better than people you want to spit on.

My friend, you excel at talking to yourself :D. Good luck, I wish I could help you somehow.

Guys, take a look at for example Malygos model. I know that when his textures with that glow around runes is made transparent, he turns black instead. In order to really make it appear transparent in game, one acutally has to turn it solid black - so there's some sort of setting which makes black be displayed as transparent and transparent as black. I have no idea where is this set, I just know models which do this. You can in general meet with this kind of effect when it comes to some glows and particle effects - especially fires (even on WotLK, or, I think, I've never actually seen this on any preWotLK stuff, but I might be wrong here).

I'd have to see your AreaTable.dbc, row 4690.

Potřebné programy GruulMeWDT AdtAdder MyDBCEditor (či jiný DBC editor) Potřebné počáteční znalosti Předpokládá se, že jste si prošli Obecný přehled pojmů a systému hry, Vytváření a editace MPQ archivů, Editaci DBC a Úvod do Noggitu. Také se předpokládá, že máte k dispozici server k testování. Tvorba nové mapy Začněte tím, že si vytvoříte ve složce, ze které bere váš Noggit data (takže ideálně složka vašeho projektu - bude ve stejné složce, v jaké je složka World, do které vám Noggit ukládá upravená ADT) složku DBFilesClient. V této složce budeme udržovat všechna naše DBC týkající se herních map. Tato složka bude Noggitem čtena jako poslední, takže všechna DBC v ní budou přepisovat DBC nalezená v MPQčkách. Osobně v tuto složku používám jako úložiště úplně všech DBC, která jsem kdy upravil. Potřebovat budete Map.dbc. Doporučuji také vzít MapDifficulty.dbc. Víc byste neměli potřebovat, ale jelikož začínáme, trochu tady ještě potáhnu za ruku ty, kteří jsou ještě ze všech těch DBC a jejich úprav zmatení. Otevřete si obě DBC v MyDBCEditoru. Budete chtít udělat nejspíše novou mapu kontinentu, tedy volně přístupnou mapu pro všechny. V takovém případě jednoduše okopírujte v Map.dbc první řádek (pravým na něj klikněte a dejte Copy Line To...) na volné místo. DBC končí v blizzlike podobě na ID 724, takže můžete použít třeba 725. Přepište oba názvy ve sloupci 2 a 6. Název ve sloupci 2 je jméno mapy v MPQ, musí být bezpodmínečně bez háčků a čárek, mezer a podobných věcí, dál budu předpokládat, že jste do tohoto políčka napsali NazevMapy. Název ve sloupci 6 je už skutečný název mapy, který uvidíte třeba v Noggitu v menu, tam už můžete psát, co chcete, i diakritiku. Pokud nechcete dělat kontinent, projděte si už sami dokumentaci, jak na to. Nicméně i u BG a instancí doporučuji začít u kontinentu, protože ten se snáze testuje, a až pak jej případně na BG/instanci předělat v DBC. To samé udělejte v MapDifficulty - vezměte první řádek (shodou okolností i zde je to řádek Azerothu) a nakopírujte jej na volné místo, třeba na 754 (pokud máte blizzlike DBC). Přepište pak jen ID mapy v druhým sloupci (což je odkaz na vaše ID mapy v Map.dbc, jak byste se dočetli v dokumentaci) a hotovo. Umístěte obě DBC jak do vašeho MPQ, tak do dbc adresáře vašeho testovacího serveru. Pak spusťte GruulMeWDT, klikněte na New, vyplňte váš název mapy a přidejte příponu .wdt (takže třeba NazevMapy.wdt). Důležité je, aby název přesně seděl. WDT flags zaškrtejte 2 a 4 a dejte Save. Pokud vám takto vytvořené nové WDT bude blbnout, jednoduše si najděte v MPQ WDT nějakého kontinentu od Blizzardu, vyextrahujte jej, přejmenujte na NazevMapy, a jen mu v GruulMeWDT upravte ADT array. To by mělo jít vždy. Na závěr běžte do složky, kde máte projekt, zajděte do složky maps ve složce world (vytvořte je, pokud je tam nemáte, což bude jen v případě, že jste v Noggitu nic ještě neupravovali) a v ní vytvořte složku s názvem odpovídajícím názvu mapy. Takže třeba NazevMapy. Důležité je, aby název složky, jméno WDT souboru, jména všech ADT (která budeme dělat v další sekci) a název ve 2. políčku v Map.dbc přesně seděly. Změna rozměrů existující mapy Ať už chcete upravovat blizzlike mapu, nebo svou právě vytvořenou (viz výše), postup je stejný. Spusťte GruulMeWdt, klikněte na Load..., vyberte WDT soubor upravované mapy. GruulMeWdt umí více věcí, ale my se podíváme jen na základ, přidávání a odebírání ADT. Klikněte nahoře na kartu ADT Array. Vlevo můžete překlikávat mezi Delete tile a Add ADT, a pak levým tlačítkem klikat do mapy a tím ADT mazat, nebo přidávat. Pokud vytváříte novou mapu nebo novou část mapy, nikdy nezačínejte u okraje. Existuje celá řada důvodů, proč byste mohli chtít dříve nebo později mapu rozšířit, a nalepením mapy na okraj se o tuto možnost částečně připravíte. Doporučuji však zároveň zůstat mezi ADT 0 0 a 31 31, protože v takovém případě budou po celém vašem světě kladné světové X i Y souřadnice, což trochu usnadní některé věci. Upozorňuji, že někdy je rychlejší nejdříve vytvořit samotná ADT (viz níže), případně umazat ta nechtěná, a pak jen v GruulMeWDT kliknout na Scan dir. Podíváme se ještě na tvorbu ADT. K tomu je AdtAdder. Spusťte jej, klikněte na Browse a vyberte zdrojové ADT, které bude rozkopírováno na celou mapu. Je prakticky jedno, které z těch dvou použijete, osobně používám to menší, pokud mě paměť nešálí. Vyplňte Map Name (tedy něco jako NazevMapy) a odkud kam se mají ADT vytvořit (jde o levý horní a pravý dolní roh obecně obdélníka, třeba 0 0 a 2 2 vytvoří 2x3 mapu, tedy 6 ADTček). Takto vytvořte po obdélnících svou mapu. Některá ADT budete třeba chtít nakopírovat a přejmenovat ručně (to klidně můžete), hlavně ať sedí X a Y souřadnice ADTček v jejich názvech. Pak spusťte offsetfix.bat (.bat, ne .exe prosím). Hoďte všechna vaše ADT do složky s vaší mapou, tedy tam, kde máte WDT. Pokud děláte úplně novou mapu, můžete klidně až teď otevřít GruulMeWDT a nechat jej, ať vám upraví WDT podle obsahu složky, ve kterém je. Pokud jste vše udělali správně, měla by vám mapa jít otevřít v Noggitu a měli byste být schopni se na ni po restartu teleportovat i na vašem testovacím serveru. Několik poznámek na okraj. Pokud budete mít na okrajích nakopírovaných ADT podivné čáry, jde o stíny, které by měly zmizet, jakmile po nich přejedete jakýmkoliv nástrojem pro modelaci terénu. Pokud jste si vybrali jako zdrojové ADT to, ve kterém nejsou textury na terénu, první textura, kterou aplikujete, vyplní všechny zasažené chunky. To je normální chování. Pokud chcete, aby vám na vaší mapě fungovaly zóny, general chat, aby se vám na nich nepropadala NPCčka a vlastně aby na nich fungoval prakticky jakýkoliv obsah, který jde ze serveru, musíte pro svou mapu vygenerovat server side mapy (tedy maps, vmaps, mmaps). Jak na to popisuju v angličtině zde. Pokud budete mít ve WDT zaznamenané ADT, které herní klient nenajde v žádném MPQ, hra crashne. Pokud naopak nebudete mít ve WDT zapsané ADT, které při tom v MPQ bude, hra jej bude ignorovat a neotevře jej. Naopak Noggit vám vždy otevře všechna ADT v mapě a WDT takřka ignoruje, takže pro pouhou práci v Noggitu bez toho, že byste výsledky testovali ve hře, potřebujete pouze, aby WDT existovalo, ale už ne aby bylo 100% přesné a aktuální.

Let me try to make myself clear again. Someone makes a research about content of a game. Shares it. Someone makes some tools to edit that content. Shares them. Someone uses those tools to create or mod something. That lets other people know, that something is possible, it makes them want to be able to achieve that as well. And some even try to. More people become familiar with list of things which are possible. More people become interrested. More people means, that there's a bigger chance that some of them will find something entirely new out. And share it. More people doing stuff by using released documentation and tools means that some of them may also be unhappy with already existing tools (they might be unreliable, incomplete, inconvenient to use or just still missing). So they either try to make those tools better or they create a new ones. And they share them. Even MORE people get attracted by BIGGER amount of released knowledge and BIGGER amount of now BETTER released tools and BIGGER amount of achieved stuff which is now even MORE attractive and BETTER overall. Do you see where is this going? And do you see that by releasing your stuff you can actually profit as well? What you are doing is either just bragging like Skarn said (I, with all honesty, hope and think it is not), or just a short-sighted foolishness. And its also unfair for people like Schlumpf, who have made WotLK modding for you guys possible before and now, if they wanted to move to Legion, they would have to make everything up on their own as they did before, instead of you now helping them in. fucking. fair. return. Please, also realize that not everyone is actually interrested in finding new stuff out. Some of us simply want to make things, not invent them. We are not all scientists. We all respect scientists and acknowledge that world needs them, but we want to actually make things happen by use of already gathered knowledge, some of us are simply just practical, not academical people. And just a side note, as an IT student, I've got all what is required to do the same stuff you do. I don't, not because of laziness, but because of simply I don't like doing so, like someone doesn't like drawing, someone doesn't like jogging and someone doesn't like rap music, I don't like doing research and inventing new things. What a tragedy. Does that really mean that I should be cast out of Legion modding community, that I shouldn't be able to mod Legion, does that mean that I can't make Legion maps, help with inspiring people to mod Legion, write tutorials, shoot tutorial videos, help with my showoffs to advertise this whole modding thing, create tools which, while being simply and programmed sometimes in a mediocre way, are helpful for daily tasks and make them much easier and quicker? Once again, its foolish, selfish and short-sighted of you. But feel free to release another arrogant gibberish about how am I just crying or something. Enjoy. Like for that.

Nothing more to say, I absolutely agree. Mate, I lack knowledge, skill and energy to mod Legion. Thats one of reasons why I stay on WotLK, because I can actually work with WotLK. On the other hand, as you might know from this site well enough already, if I find something new out, I share it. If I code a tool to perform some daily tasks quicker, I share it. I don't feel like really pushing WotLK modding to new limits, there's too little to be done anyway, but I try to at least make it quicker, more easy and convenient. By sharing what you found out you would get less skilled or determined people into Legion modding and some of them would give you stuff in return - new tools, their own experience and finds. Sometimes even questions of those who would like to ask you about something can make you learn more. This community have made Legion modding possible. By making WoD modding possible. Because MoP modding was made possible. Because Cataclysm modding was made possible. Because WotLK modding was made possible before... Do you actually get where the fluff am I going to? Noone expects anything more than this to simply continue. Or... were you the ones researching stuff when modding has started? No? So where the hell do you get right to keep knowledge based on that (freely shared!) knowledge for yourselves? "While we teach, we learn." - Seneca